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Is the Talking Horn on the 4th beast of Daniel 7 (a.k.a.
the "little horn")
the Same Power As the Sea Beast of Revelation 13?
Introduction
This is an important question, because the talking horn is described as a very powerful
force that has greatly affected the lives of many of God's people. Failure
to properly identify it can have important censequences for a genuine Christian.
The same is true of the leopard beast of Revelation 13. The mark of the beast
is associated with that power and there is the worst possible consequence associated
with receiving that mark (Revelation 14:9-11). So, it is important to properly
identify the beast of Revelation 13. If one can properly identify the talking
horn and then show that it is the same power as the leopard beast of Revelation
13, then the job of identifying the leopard beast is much more easily taken care
of by this solution.
This page is dedicated to showing that the two powers from Daniel 7 and Revelation
13 are one and the same.
Talking Horn Of Daniel 7
To begin, here are the relevant texts about the talking horn of Daniel 7:
Daniel 7:8 - I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them
another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the
roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking
great things.
Daniel 7:11 - I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the
horn spoke: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to
the burning flame.
Daniel 7:20 - And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other
which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth
that spoke very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
Daniel 7:21 - I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and
prevailed against them;
Daniel 7:22 - Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the
saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Daniel 7:23 - Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon
earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and
shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Daniel 7:24 - And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall
arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he
shall subdue three kings.
Daniel 7:25 - And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall
wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall
be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Daniel 7:26 - But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his
dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Here is a list of the relevant characteristics of the talking horn:
Leopard Beast Of Revelation 13
Now, here are the relevant texts for the leopard beast in Revelation 13:
Revelation 13:1 - And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise
up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and
upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Revelation 13:2 - And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his
feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon
gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Revelation 13:3 - And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and
his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Revelation 13:4 - And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the
beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to
make war with him?
Revelation 13:5 - And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things
and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Revelation 13:6 - And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to
blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Revelation 13:7 - And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and
to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Revelation 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose
names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the
world.
Revelation 13:9 - If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Revelation 13:10 - He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he
that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the
faith of the saints.
Here is a list of the relevant characteristics of the leopard beast:
Most Common Identifying Characteristics of Both Beasts
Below is a table showing the common characteristics shared by both beasts:
| Daniel 7 Talking Horn | Revelation 13 Leopard Beast |
| 1. Comes up among the 10 horns of Europe from the dreadful beast (Rome). Will arise after the 10 horns which in turn arise after the time represented by the body of the 4th beast. (Dan 7:23-24) | The dragon handed this power its seat through Rome (Rev 13:2) |
| 2. The saints will be given into his hand until a time and times and dividing of time (1260 days). (Dan 7:25) | Has power for 42 months or 1260 days (Rev 13:5) |
| 3. After the 1260 days/years, will remain until the end, though Daniel seems to say its power over the saints of God will have been largely removed. (Dan 7:11, 17, 18, 21, 22, 25, 26, 27) | After the 1260 days/years, it will remain until the end of the world. It will have a short term resumption of its power against Gods saints just before the end of the world, a detail not given by Daniel. (Rev 13:1; 17:8, 11, 14; 19:20) |
| 4. Final destiny is to be destroyed by fire after judgment along with the dreadful beast itself (Dan 7:11, 26) | Final destiny is to be destroyed in the lake of fire on the day in which judgment is executed against it. (Rev 19:20; 20:10) |
| 5. Will speak great words against God (a form of blasphemy) (Dan 7:8, 20, 25) | Speaks blasphemy (Rev 13:1, 5, 6) |
| 6. Continues to speak blasphemy even after its power against the saints is removed (after the 1260 days/years). Indicates character trait. (Dan 7:8-11, 25) | Has the name of blasphemy upon its heads. This indicates that during the time of the heads (after the 1260 days/years), it will continue to speak blasphemy. It also indicates its fundamental character trait. (Rev 13:1; 14:1; 20:4; 22:4) |
| 7. Will war against the saints of God and prevail against them. (Dan 7:25) | Power over the saints to make war against them and overcome them (Rev 13:7) |
| 8. Will think to change laws. This would not be the laws of some nation for this would be irrelevant, so it must refer to God’s law. (Dan 7:25) | Will claim power (another form of blasphemy) over the tabernacle of God which has the law of God inside, so will claim power to change the law of God. (Rev 13:6) |
| 9. Will think to change times. This would be times as defined by God. One such time given by God was the beginning of the year. Pope Gregory XIII changed the beginning of the year to January from March. Another is the change of the Sabbath from the original Saturday to Sunday. | Blasphemy includes the taking of the powers of God. God is the one who defined the year for the Jewish people. Changing it would show one has powers as great as God. Another change of times is the change of the Sabbath from the original Saturday to Sunday, an act of blasphemy. This was never ordered or approved of by God. |
| 10. Will be a religious power because it is diverse from those before it, which were political. (Dan 7:23) | Will be a religious authority because men will worship it, which you direct only to a supreme being.(Rev 13:4) |
| 11. Will have a more stout look compared to other horns, and given the fact that it is somehow responsible for the removal of 3 other horns, this strongly suggests it is stronger than the nations it is among. (Dan 7:20, 8, 24) | Is said to have power over all nations (this probably means those nations within its sphere of influence). Is also said to be unlike others and who can make war against it? This strongly suggests that it is stronger than the nations it is among. (Rev 13:4, 7) |
Four of the most important identifiers are the key items of blasphemy, when this
power would occur, for how long it would have power, and where it would arise.
Blasphemy -
Definitions & How the 2 Beasts Commit Blasphemy
Blasphemy has 2 main definitions in the bible. The first is to speak against
God or to show contempt for God. The second is to make oneself into God
(John 10:33 - The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone
thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself
God.")
Here is the definition of the word blasphemy from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:
Blasphemy:
1 a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God,
b : the act of claiming the attributes of deity
2 : irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable
Consider definitions 1a and 1b for a moment. If you think about it, it is
not all that hard to realize that to do either of these is to believe that one is
above God. That certainly is so because to show contempt or lack of reverence
for God is to think that God is irrelevant and that one's own choices count more
than those of God. And of course, if one claims the attributes of deity, one
is certainly placing oneself at least on an equal footing with God, if not actually
above. So, the underlying attitude that constitutes blasphemy is that God
is less important than one's own self, and that places us above God.
Note that the Papacy has certainly claimed the attributes of God. Here are
a few of the evidences for this assertion:
(1)
it claims the power to forgive sin, which John 10:33
("The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for
blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.")
(2)
it claimed to have the power to change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday which
was an attempt to change the law of God,
(3)
it even claims to be able to create God in the transubstantiation of the bread and
wine into what they claim is the literal body (or flesh) and blood of
Jesus respectively. If they can create their creator, then this essentially means
they claim to be a higher power than God. If you don't believe that they are
attempting to create their creator, then consider that they themselves recognize they
are trying to do that very thing. Here is a statement of their own about this:
"...the power of the priest is the power of the divine person; for the
transubstantiation of the bread requires as much power as the creation of the
world. ...thus the priest may be called the creator of the Creator..."
- The diginity of the priesthood by Liguori, p. 33
The talking horn is said to speak great words against God (Dan 7:25) and the leopard
beast not only has the name of blasphemy on its heads, but is directly said to speak
blasphemy. Therefore, there is no question that both powers are guilty of
blasphemy. Primarily they do this both by what they say against God, and their
actions show that they consider themselves to be as great, if not greater, than
God, which is also a form of blasphemy.
Blasphemy is Fundamental to the Character of the Leopard Beast and Talking Horn
Revelation 13:1 says that the leopard beast has the name of blasphemy upon its
heads. Remember that on the leopard in Daniel 7, there were wings upon it's
back? This meant that during the time represented by the body of that leopard, the
characteristic symbolized by the wings would apply. In other words, wings meant
that this empire would conquer very rapidly, and the wings being on the back of the
leopard meant it would apply only to the time represented by the body of the leopard,
not its four heads. Indeed, Alexander the Great did conquer much of the then
known world in just a few years. However, the 4 divisions of the kingdom did very
little conquering of their own and did not do so rapidly. Fact is, some of
them
lost
territory. So, likewise, having the name of blasphemy upon the heads of the
7 headed leopard in Revelation 13 indicates that during the time represented by
the heads (after the time represented by the body of that beast), it would have
the name of blasphemy as a characteristic.
Now what does having the name of blasphemy mean? It is saying more than just
that it would commit blasphemy during the time represented by the heads, though
that is part of it. Committing blasphemy comes under the
Characteristic Principle,
which does get back to how it would behave, what it would do, or how it would
do something. In this case, it is telling you that it will speak against God
and consider itself as great, if not greater, than God. But, in addition,
by having the name of blasphemy upon the heads, it is telling you that this is a
fundamental characteristic of this beast. Blasphemy is the name of the heads,
literally, because that word ("blasphemy") is what is written upon it's
heads. This is made clear when one examines some other texts regarding having
a name or mark in the forehead in Revelation (which is similar to having the name
upon the heads). Here are some texts that should make this clear:
Rev. 14:1 - And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with
him a hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their
foreheads.
Rev. 20:4 - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given
unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and
for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither
had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 22:4 - And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their
foreheads.
Revelation 20:4 especially makes it clear that having a name or mark upon the forehead
is associated with a basic character trait. Having the name of blasphemy upon
the heads would appear not to be identical with having it upon the forehead, but
the fact that it is the name of blasphemy rather than blasphemy itself indicates
that this is dealing with a character trait (which gives it's function) rather than
the location per se being an indicator of its function. The location itself
is a time indicator (the heads), while the location also associates it with its
function. So, having the name of blasphemy upon its 7 heads indicates that
this is a basic character trait, which also indicates its behavior during the time
of the 7 heads.
Daniel indicates something similar when he says that even after judgment has been
rendered in favor of the saints (and as a result, against the beast), the talking
horn continues to speak words of blasphemy against God right up until the time it
is destroyed by fire. This judgment occurs after the 1260 days/years but before
the saints take possession of the kingdom. Now THAT has got to indicate character
because it is stubbornly continuing to do wrong even up until the moment it is destroyed!
It is clear that the judgment must occur after the 1260 days/years and before the
return of Jesus. Here is why this is so. The talking horn will have
power for 1260 years against the saints of God (Dan 7:25). We know that the
fourth beast remains until the end of the world when Jesus comes again (Dan 2:40
- 45 which is the same story of the 4th beast, but shown differently, and it remains
until the end). Eventually, the body of this beast will be destroyed or killed,
and given to the flames, an event has not yet happened (Dan 7:11). There is
no successor beast shown to Daniel and Daniel 2 indicates that the fourth kingdom
would eventually break up and in the days of those kings, Jesus would come again
and set up his kingdom by destroying the previous kingdoms (Daniel 2:40-45 and Daniel
7). It can be shown that the 1260 days/years occurred during the years
538-1798 A.D,
which is now past. So, there is a time gap between the end of the 1260 years,
and the future time when the beast will be destroyed.
Daniel 7:23 - 27 is an explanation given in sequential order of events. Here is
what it says:
Dan 7:23 - Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon
earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and
shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 - And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall
arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and
he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 - And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall
wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they
shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 - But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion,
to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 - And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom
under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High,
whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Note that it says the judgment shall sit and the dominion of the beast will be taken
away. But also note that it says this will occur AFTER the 1260 days/years,
so removal of its dominion apparently is not the same as the end of the 1260 days/years.
The removal of its dominion very likely refers to the taking of the kingdom
by God and giving of the kingdom to His people. The beast's destruction eventually
follows at the end and the kingdom of God will be set up.
However, Daniel says in Daniel 7:11 says that the talking horn continues to speak
great words against God until the body of the beast is killed and given to the
flames. Therefore, this indicates that after the 1260 days/years, right through
the judgment against it, and right up to the end of time, the talking horn continues to
speak great words against God. Clearly, this must occur after civil power was
taken away from the Papacy in February of 1798, which means it would occur during the
time of the heads of the leopard beast of Revelation 13.
But this also indicates a stubborn persistence with this activity of blasphemy against
God. It is so ingrained into the thinking of this power that it cannot stop
blaspheming God no matter the evidence against it. So it is a matter of character
as well as of behavior. This is why the leopard beast of Revelation 13 has
the name of blasphemy on it's heads. This indicates blasphemy is part of its
character as well as its behavior.
How long would it have power?
The number of years it would have power is given by the terms that reduce to 1260
symbolic days, which are 1260 literal years. This can be shown to have run from
538 A.D.
to
1798 A.D.
(see the
explanation of the 4th beast of Daniel 7
for more information on verification of these dates).
When did it have power and where did it arise?
The time of the existence of both of these symbols is given by both visions to be
after the Roman empire. The talking horn can be shown to have come up after
476 A.D.
because it comes up after the 10 horns in the vision, which indicates that it follows
their arrival. The 10 horns arive in
476 A.D,
so logically then, the talking horn must come to power after that time.
The Papacy certainly existed before
476 A.D,
but it got legal power over the people of God in
538 A.D.
through the decree of Justinian making the pope head bishop over all other bishops
and giving the pope power to destroy whatever it considered to be heresy.
The time of this power seems to be what God counts for the dominant time of the
talking horn and the leopard beast.
The location from which the talking horn arises is from among the 10 horns (kings) and out
of the dreadful beast, which can be anywhere in Europe. However, there
is one more fact that limits the location to one place only. It says that
the talking horn will be responsible for removal of 3 horns (kings). Now,
historically, it is known that the Eastern Roman Emperor, Justinian, did in fact
remove 3 of those horns at the instigation of a Catholic Bishop. The three kings they removed were the Vandals, Ostrogoths, and Rugians. If you wish to read a much more in-depth study of this and why this conclusion is arrived at and why it is correct, click here. The author spent months investigating this and came to the only conclusion that is reasonable. Because the Catholic Bishop instigated this war and did cause the removal of three kings, therefore the Catholic Church is responsible for their removal. The Bible place the responsibility at the doorstep of the king of the Catholic Church, the pope, even though the pope may or may not have been directly responsible for this action. Catholics who know their history will admit that their church indirectly (through Justinian) took down the Vandals and Ostrogoths, but by so doing they automatically admit to taking down the Rugians as well because the Rugians were destroyed in Italy right along with the Ostrogoths, both by Justinian's army in the same war.
The point of this is that the 3 horns being removed was done at the instigation of a Catholic Bishop. The pope is the head of that church, so is ultimately responsible for the actions of the bishops. Therefore, the location for the talking horn is the Catholic Church in Rome. Nobody else
qualifies.
One cannot say that the talking horn was Justinian or Zeno of the Eastern Roman
Empire because this was a political empire, and it was said that the talking horn
would be different than those before and around it. A political empire would
not be different than those before or those around it, so the logical conclusion
is that the Eastern Roman Empire is not the talking horn. In addition, the
Eastern Roman Empire was eventually overrun and conquered by the Islamic nations
around it. Rome, on the other hand, was overrun by the barbarian tribes and
then broke up, with many tribes in Europe taking over where Rome had controlled
the area before. The ten horns are symbolic of the many nations that would come out of pagan Rome. So, the Eastern Roman Empire did not break up into many
parts (it was taken over by the Islamics and made a part of their empire), whereas the Western Roman Empire did break up into many parts.
The Roman empire died in
476 A.D.
and did not last as an empire for 1260 years, and it was represented by the dreadful
beast, not the talking horn. There would be duplication of symbols and time
periods in the prophecy if Rome itself was represented by both symbols. So,
Pagan Rome cannot be the talking horn. Finally, the Eastern Roman Empire was
not represented by the dreadful beast of Daniel 7, though it was included as part
of that beast's body. The dreadful beast represented mainly the Western Roman
Empire. This must be so because Rome was the origin of the empire, and these
beasts of Daniel 7 always included the origins, not some other aspect of the empires.
Some have suggested that the talking horn could be the Islamic religion. But
this is probably false because the Islamic religion does not have a centralized
authority as does the Papacy, so there is nobody who could be called its "king"
or leader, which the horn would represent. Further, the Islamic religion never
proclaimed any of it's more prominent leaders were essentially gods, with one exception,
which is that Mohammed declared that the day of rest was to be Friday, which is
in violation of God's law. This did place him in the position of God which
is blasphemy. However, since then, they have not had leaders that have made
significant changes that could be considered to place them in the position of God.
In other words, this is not an ongoing problem with them. The talking horn
obviously does claim the powers of God on an ongoing basis. In addition, both
the leopard beast and the talking horn come out of the Roman Empire, but the Islamic
religion originated in Saudi Arabia, which was not ruled by Rome.
Rome did in fact rule the Eastern Mediterranean, Syria, Armenia, and what is now
Iraq, but did not move south and east into Saudi Arabia. The eastern end of
the Roman empire was roughly at the modern day border between Iraq and Iran.
The Parthian empire was to the east of that, and although they battled back and
forth, neither gained an advantage such that they could move the border substantially
in either direction. Eventually the two sides signed a peace treaty and fixed
the border between them permanently. That seemed to settle the issue.
So, one cannot say that Islam came out of Rome. One last final "straw"
to break the proverbial camel's back is that Rome as an empire died out by 476 AD
(5th century), but Islam came upon the scene afterwards in the 7th century CE and
had an impact on the Eastern Roman Empire, but not Rome itself where the 10 horns
arose after the fall of Rome in 476 AD. So, the talking horn and the leopard
beast cannot be Islam.
The time for arrival of the leopard beast is slightly more complicated. It
does say that the dragon gives it a seat to rule from, power, and great authority.
Now primarily, the dragon is the devil, so this does in fact make the devil responsible
for what the leopard beast does because he instigates it's activities and is in
control of it. So, he is given
credit by responsibility
for whatever it does (note that this is also true of the dragon's relationship with
Pagan Rome). As a result, in a secondary sense, the body of the dragon first
represents Pagan Rome, and then Papal Rome, in that order. Revelation 13:2
which says
"...and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority,"
is found to have actually happened historically through Rome. When
Constantine moved the capital of the Roman empire to Constantinople, he handed the
government of Rome over to the pope, something that became very important as the
Barbarian tribes began invading Rome. The pope became the sole protector of
the people of Rome, as the emperors in Rome were powerless to protect the people.
This tells you that this leopard beast will come to the scene right on the heels
of Pagan Rome and springs directly from Rome, which gives its location to arise from.
Now, the next piece of evidence helps establish when the 1260 years began.
For the talking horn, this evidence is found in Daniel 7:25, which says "
"...and they shall be given into his hand
until
a time and times and the dividing of time,"
which should indicate that they would be given into his hand until the
end
of the 1260 symbolic days. What this means in Daniel 7:25 is that the 1260 days
(years) would begin when power was officially given to this power to have control over
the people of God and this power would terminate at the end of the 1260 days (years).
Revelation 13:7 says something rather similar: "
"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to
overcome them: and power was given him over all
kindreds, and tongues, and nations."
Elsewhere, Revelation 13:5
"...and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."
Clearly, something very similar to the timing of the
talking horn is declared in Revelation 13:5,7 for the
leopard beast, because it says this power would continue for 1260 days
(years) and power would be given to it over everyone, which it would
use against the saints and would overcome them during this time. This
can be shown to have become enforceable in
538 A.D,
see the
explanation of the 4th beast of Daniel 7 .
Given that the time periods for both beasts begin with the same event and end with
the same event, we can conclude that they are the same. Historically it is
a fact that the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian gave the pope legal authority to
destroy heresy wherever it was found. This means that anyone who disagreed
with the pope was legally handed over to him to do as he wished to them. This
power was taken away in
1798
by the French General Berthier when he invaded Rome and decreed the Papal government
was ended. Emperor Justinian's decree was written in
533 A.D,
but could not be enforced until
538 A.D.
due to circumstances beyond the emperor's and the pope's control), which gave it
power to put people in prison, put them to death, or hand out other forms of punishment
for failing to adhere to Catholic doctrine. This should certainly qualify
as having been given power over the people of God. What more could have been
done to these people if this does not qualify?
Other Common Identifying Characteristics of Both Beasts
Are Both Beasts Religious Powers?
Daniel 7:23 says that the talking horn will be diverse from those who came before
it. Historically, we know that the only power that matches the talking horn
is the Papacy, which clearly was a religious power. Some would say it was
a religious-political power, and that certainly is correct. But, you cannot
escape the conclusion that it was a religious power.
Now, the leopard beast is said to receive worship from men. This certainly
is an act that one should direct only to God, who should be the ultimate authority
in our lives. But, currently God does not operate a visible earthly kingdom,
so we must conclude that for the time being, he is to be seen as a religious authority.
So, to worship the leopard beast is to place him in the position of being
a religious authority.
Now, if the leopard beast is the Papacy, then does it meet the qualification of
receiving worship? The answer to this is YES, it does receive worship.
Now, you may ask "how that can be true since we don't see men bowing down before
the pope and worshipping him directly"? Here is how this occurs.
First, the Papacy claims that it stands in the place of God on earth. Among
the powers that it claims because of this idea is that men cannot approach God directly,
unlike what the bible tells us God has said about this (consider Hebrews 4:16, which
says
"Let us therefore come
boldly
unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time
of need.")
Now, consider the subject of forgiveness of sins. If one cannot approach God
to have one's sins forgiven, then
how are sins to be forgiven?
The Papacy has a neat solution to this:
confess your sins to a priest and he has the power to forgive sins.
But beware,
the bible says this is an act of worship!
Remember what the Jews said about this when Jesus told a man his sins were
forgiven? Here is what they said about it: John 10:33 "
"The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not;
but for blasphemy;
and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
To claim this power is to place oneself in the place of God to receive a request that
can only be properly directed to God, which means one commits an act of worship to ask
that sins be forgiven because it must go only to God. That means to request of a
priest that he forgive one's sins is in fact to direct a request to him that should only
go to God by way of worship, so asking the priest to forgive sins is in fact an act of
worship. Hence, the Papacy does in fact receive worship from its followers and
therefore meets the qualification as a religious power.
You don't worship somebody you don't consider a god and it seems reasonable that
nobody would permit worship directed towards them unless they considered themselves
to be a god. So, do the popes and priests consider themselves as gods?
Here is the answer in their own words:
"The pope is the supreme judge of the law of the land . . . He is the vicegerent of Christ, and is not only a priest forever, but also King of kings and Lord of lords" -- La Civilta Cattolica, March 18, 1871.
"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh." -- Catholic National July 1895.
"The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man (...) he is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power." -- Lucius Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', pp.25-29
"you [priests] are called 'another Christ." -- MOTHER TERESA
"...the power of the priest is the power of the divine person; for the transubstantiation of the bread requires as much power as the creation of the world. ...thus the priest may be called the creator of the Creator..." -- The diginity of the priesthood by Liguori, p. 33
Innocent III has written: "Indeed, it is not top much to say that in view of the sublimity of their offices the priests are so many gods." -- The dignity of the priesthood by Liguori p, 36
"For thou art the shepherd, thou art the physician, thou art the director, thou art the husbandman, finally thou art another God on earth." -- Labbe and Cossart's "History of the Councils." Vol. XIV, col. 109
Now, consider these statements above in contrast with what God says in Isaiah 48:11
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another."
If you read the context of this verse, it makes it clear that God is speaking here
of his creative power and other abilities, so in short he is declaring that he will
not give his power and position to another.
Clearly, by their own admission, they claim the powers of God himself, which means
they consider themselves as gods. Yet God has said he will not share his glory
with another, which means those who consider themselves as gods are in fact false
gods.
They are ascribing powers to themselves that God has never, and will never,
authorize men or anyone else to have.
Therefore, the conclusion clearly is that both beasts are religious powers.
Did Both Beasts Attempt to Change the Law of God?
Daniel 7:25 tells us that the talking horn would think to change laws, which would
most certainly be a reference to the law of God. It would not matter at all
if it was only going to change the law of man. God would not see that as
significant, so it has to be that this change must refer to the law of God. So,
did the talking horn attempt to make such a change? The answer to that is YES, it
did. If you look at the Catholic Catechism and find the 10 commandments it
has in it, you will discover that if you compare it to the bible, it has been
changed. The second commandment, Exodus 20:4, which says
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing
that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water
under the earth:"
has been deleted entirely. But in order to preserve the number of laws at 10, they
split the last commandment into 2 parts. Their bible contains the original
commandments, but they are instructed to follow the catechism first. Further, it
changed the day of rest from Saturday to Sunday, for which they readily admit they had
no authority from God to do.. But of course,
man cannot really change God's laws. He may think he can but it is impossible
for man to really do that. Nevertheless, the Papacy claims that it had such
authority that it could change the law of God.
Now, did the leopard beast claim such power also? It is said that it committed
blasphemy against the tabernacle of God, among others that it blasphemed.
Now blasphemy can mean to take on the power of God. In the bible, the tabernacle
of God was where a copy of the law of God was stored in the ark of the covenant,
which is where God would appear. We have reason to believe that the tabernacle
Moses built in the wilderness was patterned after the real tabernacle in heaven.
Thus, a copy of the law of God is stored there too. Now, to blaspheme it is
to claim power over it. If you have power over a law, you can change it at
will. For Revelation 13 to state that the leopard beast would commit blasphemy
against the tabernacle is to indicate that this power would claim authority over
the law of God and the ability to change it at will. Has the Papacy claimed
such authority? Yes, they have. So, the leopard beast also claims the
same power that the talking horn declares it has.
Just so the reader knows that the Papacy claims power to change God's law (thereby
committing blasphemy against the tabernacle of God), here are several statements
from Catholic sources about this important subject:
"Not the Creator of Universe, in Genesis 2:1-3,-but the Catholic Church can claim the honor of having granted man a pause to his work every seven days." - S. C. Mosna, Storia della Domenica, 1969, pp. 366-367.
"The Pope is of great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws... The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." - Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Ribliotheca, "Papa," art. 2, translated.
"The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." -
"The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." - Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dictionary.
They "dispense with the command of Christ???"
When the Catholic church is asked... "Why do you feel you have the power, authority and ability to change Scripture to match your traditions?" They answer...
"Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; --she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." - Rev. Stephan Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, "On the Obedience Due to the Church," chap. 2, p. 174. (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, archbishop of New York.)
"The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed...the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority." - Canon and Tradition, p. 263
Now, any questions about this???
Did Both Beasts Think to Change God's Times?
Calendar Change
The original calendar created by the Romans is known as the Roman republican calendar,
which was in use until
8 A.D.
This calendar had a year of 355 days, which was about 10 days too short
compared to a solar year. The Romans were supposed to add extra time to correct
for it, but because of political disagreements, they rarely did it. By
46 B.C,
the calendar was so far out of sync with nature (about 90 days out of sync!) that
Julius Caesar determined to correct the problem. He consulted with the Alexandrian
astronomer Sosigenes, who advised creation of a calendar of 365 1/4 days based on
the solar year, rather than lunar months. He also advised adding a leap day
every 4 years to correct for some inaccuracies inherent in his system. So,
Julius Caesar created a year of 12 months with days of 30 or 31 days, except for
February, which normally had 28 days. During leap years, February had 29 days
in it. So, in March of the next year
(46 B.C. to us,)
the calendar was reset to January 1, which corrected for the obvious loss
of 90 days over time from the calendar compared to the cycles of nature. The
new calendar, which is today called the Julian calendar, was just a little too long
by a little more than 11 minutes per year, but it worked better than the old Roman
republican calendar. The problem was that because of confusion, the Julian
calendar received only gradually increasing use until
8 A.D.
By
8 A.D,
the old calendar had been dropped everywhere in the Roman world.
By the time Pope Gregory XIII came around (reigned
(reigned 1572 - 1585,)
the Julian Calendar, which had been in use since Roman times, was 10 days out of sync
with the actual physical year. Consequently, a correction was needed. At
the Council of Trent, in
December of 1545
at its first meeting session, it was decided that something had to be done about
this. Pope Paul III consulted with mathematicians and astronomers and gathered
data in the hopes of being able to correct the problem, but inaccuracies in measurements
they were able to take at the time led astronomers to doubt their ability to correctly
formulate a workable calendar with fewer errors. By the time of Pope
Gregory XIII, it was believed by astronomers that sufficiently accurate data had
been obtained that a proper correction could be inplemented. With the help
of two astronomers, the pope set about fixing the calendar. He simply
omitted 10 days from the numerical days of the month and set a date for this to
occur. By omitting 10 days, it removed the extra time inherently present in
the Julian calendar that had accumulated over the centuries. The
4th of October, 1582;
was to be followed by the
15th of October, 1582;
which would bring the calendar back into line with the seasons. The normal
days of the week, however, remained in their normal sequence, as always. This
correction brought the numerical days of the calendar back into line with those of
325 AD.
Below is a table showing the actual layout of the month of October as it occurred
in the year 1582.
| October, 1582 | ||||||
| Sun | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat |
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 15 | 16 | |
| 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 |
| 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 |
| 31 | ||||||
In addition, an improved leap year system was implemented to enhance the accuracy
of the new calendar and thereby reduce errors.
What is interesting is that the months January through June were named for Roman
gods or ceremonies associated with these gods, the months of July and August were
named for 2 Roman emperors, while the remaining months are given names based on
Latin number prefixes. September is named for the 7th month of the Julian
calendar (which preceded the Gregorian calendar). Note that under the Julian
calendar, the year began in March (March 25 to be exact), so September would be
the 7th month of that year. The prefix "sep" means seven.
October has the prefix "oct", meaning 8, November has the prefix
"novem", meaning 9, December has the prefix Dec, meaning 10.
Everything that Pope Gregory did up to this point is something that God would very
likely have approved of because he certainly was aware of the inaccuracies in the
Julian Calendar system. The Jewish people themselves are known to have inserted
extra months from time to time to correct their Calendar, and God did not indicate
disapproval of this practice.
Click here to see more about the Jewish Calendar.
Click here to see interesting general information about calendar history.
Click here if you would like a little more technical introduction to calendar
science.
But, Pope Gregory went further. Prior to this time, the calendar had its New
Year in the month of March. Pope Gregory defined the New Year as beginning
on January 1, thereby moving it back about 2 months. Now, in the bible, God
had instructed the Jewish people that the year was to begin in the springtime,
Exodus 12:2 says "
"This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first
month of the year to you."
This month also contained the Passover ceremony, which occurs in the springtime.
The month with that event in it was to mark the new year for them. By moving
the beginning of the year to January 1, the Pope was changing a time set by God
for the Jewish people. By doing this, he fulfilled a prophecy in Daniel 7:25
(think to change times and laws), seen from the perspective of Daniel's time.
The same act is one of blasphemy
from the perspective of Daniel's time
because it acts against what God said to do, which fulfills the statement in Revelation
13:6. From our perspective, it would appear not to be an act of blasphemy
because the calendar given to the Jews is not encumbent upon us. But we have
to look at it from Daniel's perspective because it was given in his time.
So, both the talking horn and the leopard beast could be said to have fulfilled
the conditions of both prophecies (changing times and committed blasphemy which
certainly could include changing the times by taking upon itself the powers of
God).
Today Christians do not celebrate Passover as the Jewish people once did, but have
a subtitute ceremony that Jesus instituted on the night before his death, which
today is celebrated by many as the Lord's Supper in which bread is broken and served
and grape juice (or wine in some religious groups) is served, all in commemoration
of the life and death of Jesus.
Therefore, the calendar system God originally gave to the Jewish people has been
substituted by another. God himself (through Jesus) has substituted another
ceremony in place of the Passover. Perhaps, because the original ceremony has a
substitute, it is not of actual significance to Christians that the Calendar was
changed, except as a sign of who this power was that would attempt to do this. That
alone should send a clear message to the astute observer.
Changing Times By Adding to the Times?
The Catholic Church has added a number of holy days, some of which are of such importance
that church attendance is considered mandatory. Ones most commonly known are
Christmas, the 40 days of Lent, and Easter. None of these three holy days
has any biblical command authorizing them to be kept or set aside in any special
way, though Easter comes closest to having such a command. Easter is supposed
to commemorate the death and resurrection of Jesus, but Jesus did not authorize
this festival. Instead, he authorized the Lord's Supper feast to commemorate
his death and resurrection, which was also to substitute for the Passover feast
the Jews celebrated.
Click here for an article about the origins of Christmas.
Click here for an article about the origins of Lent.
Click here for an article about the origins of Easter.
There are a number of other holy days that the Catholic Church has added to its
list, some mandatory, many not mandatory, but set aside just the same.
Since none of these were commanded by God and at least some of them are mandatory
for Catholics, could this be another fulfillment of the prophecy that this power
would think to change the times? Something to think about, isn't it?
Change of the Sabbath
Another time change implemented by the Papacy was the change of the Sabbath from
Saturday to Sunday, something completely outside of the authority of God.
This is detailed in the section about the change of the laws of God above, but suffice
it to say that this would qualify because it would definitely mean a change of time
defined by God. That meets the qualification of Daniel 7:25. The same
can be said of the blasphemy mentioned in Revelation 13:6, which indicates that
this power would take on the powers of God. Changing the times set in the
law of God certainly would qualify as an act of blasphemy. So, one can logically
conclude that both powers met the qualifications of the bible in attempting to change
this time set in the law of God.
Ultimate Destiny of Both Beasts
Daniel 7:11, 26 indicate that there will be a judgment of the beast (which includes
the talking horn), and this beast and all that it is will be given over to
destruction by fire. There is a judgment which results in the kingdom being
given to the saints of God. The same exact destiny is found for the leopard
beast as shown in Revelation 20:4, 10. It ends up in the lake of fire after
judgment is given in favor of the saints of God. This could hardly be clearer.
Did Both Beasts Have Power Over the Nations Around Them?
Daniel 7 indicates that the talking horn would be somehow responsible for the removal
of 3 of the 10 horns, and that it would be more stout looking than it's fellow
horns. What does this mean? Well, to be more stout looking suggests it
appears stronger, maybe bigger, and maybe more formidable than those around it.
The fact that it could somehow be responsible for the removal of 3 of the original 10
horns should tell you it has quite a bit of influence, and maybe more power than they
have or it could not do such a thing. Hence it is reasonable to conclude that the
talking horn is stronger and has power over the horns around it, or in other words,
has power over the nations around it.
Revelation 13 indicates that the leopard beast is unlike others. What does
this mean? It has the name of blasphemy upon it, which is a way of saying
its character is that of blasphemy. This indicates that it is natural for
it to claim it has the powers of God. Evidently nobody else claims such a
thing and therefore, this makes this power unique compared to others. This
may be one way in which this is so. However, this also points to the fact
that it claims the highest power over others, that power which God alone possesses.
So, it should assert that claim over everyone, including nations.
Revelation 13 also says that men will say "who can make war against the leopard
beast?" It would suggest that this could mean several things. First,
it could mean that this power would appear to have a moral power greater than everyone
else, so it would be difficult to war against it because one would not have the
moral upper hand. Second, it could also mean that this power is so great,
that one cannot make war against it. One does not make war against an enemy
unless one is relatively certain of victory (you avoid your enemy or run the other
way if you cannot be certain of victory), so this would suggest that there is great
fear of this power in the minds of others. That being the case, this would
strongly suggest it has power over the nations around it that is greater than others.
Revelation 13 finally says that the leopard beast would be given power over all
nations. This is said in relation to the giving of power over the saints,
but it stands alone on its own as well. It would be ridiculous to say that
this means this power would be given power over all nations of the world during
the 1260 years, but it clearly was given power over all the nations within which
it had a sphere of influene, so it would appear that is the intended meaning of
this verse.
The popes did claim that they have power over the nations, the power of God
himself. Here are two statements from popes showing that this was their belief:
"[It is error to believe that] Kings and princes are not only exempt from the jurisdiction of the Church, but are superior to the Church in deciding questions of jurisdiction." -- Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors), Issued in 1864, Section VI, Errors About Civil Society, Considered Both in Itself and in its Relation to the Church, #54.
"[It is error to believe that] In the case of conflicting laws enacted by the two powers (Church and civil), the civil law prevails." -- Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors), Issued in 1864, Section VI, Errors About Civil Society, Considered Both in Itself and in its Relation to the Church, # 42.
So, the conclusion is that these two powers indeed do share the characteristic of
having power over the nations around them.
Final Conclusion of the Matter
In summary, given that the blasphemy is a common thread occurring for both symbols,
the time periods are identical in length, starting and ending dates are identical,
and Rome handed power directly over to the Papacy in both symbols, the conclusion
of the matter is that both symbols represent the same identical powers. Considering
all other remaining common characteristics should also lead one to the same conclusion.
Another way to look at this is as follows: We have two prophetic symbols from Daniel
and Revelation which represent powers that arise at the same time, arise from the
same power, occupy the same territory, exist for the same length of time, behave
identically, do the same work, and ultimately meet the same destiny, those prophetic
symbols must represent the same power. Any additional details apparently not
in common must represent different aspects of the same power that are detailed by
different authors. This must be so because there are enough common characteristics
that the conclusion is virtually inescapable that they are synonymous powers.
Hopefully this helps you understand that the talking horn and the leopard beast
of Revelation 13 are synonymous.